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Starting PCB design

Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:13 PM
Hello @QDrives
In electronics i have a solid background in design and simulation.
I work with matlab/simulink most of time.
the motor power is 5hp, rated voltage=460V LL and rated current 7A
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:14 PM
My problem is how to start,
i have already designed the power part...
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:22 PM
What you mean by how to start? If you don't know how to use Altium or KiCad there are many courses/resources available.
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:24 PM
i don't know altium , but i have it
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:25 PM
Then take some courses on Altium or watch youtube videos about it.
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:25 PM
Please what references do you suggest for a beginner?
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:26 PM
Btw since your motor is rated for 460V you have to be careful when designing PCB.
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:27 PM
this is a part of the power converter a choose
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:27 PM
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:28 PM
I don't know how to make it schematic and footprint
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:28 PM
can you share link to datasheet?
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:28 PM
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:29 PM
But anyway high voltage design is no joke. You need someone to confirm your design.
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:29 PM
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:30 PM
This is IGBT module.
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:30 PM
yes. I do not understand how to draw its footprint
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:31 PM
would you like to help me with this work? please?
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:35 PM
I see these every day where i work. Do you even know how to use them? You need gold plated contacts on PCB and they are gonna be sandwitched between PCB and radiator with a lot of force.
Mini , 01-21-2024, 06:36 PM
So you need gold plated contacts on PCB. But whole solution is quite complex. Also considering the high voltage i'm pretty sure we can't help you. Im sorry, but you need a lot of experience before designing something like this.
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:40 PM
can you refer me to someone who can help me?
Hamid Hamza , 01-21-2024, 06:40 PM
this is the bloc diagram of the whole system
Robert Feranec , 01-22-2024, 05:58 AM
For Altium, this is the best tutorial I have: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXvLToQzgzdfKKQn2wmpuSXz6sROQmO6R
Robert Feranec , 01-22-2024, 05:59 AM
This can also help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqFtSpAXB9Q
Hamid Hamza , 01-22-2024, 09:15 AM
Thanks Professor
QDrives , 01-22-2024, 10:03 PM
Is that 460V a peak voltage, RMS?
But I would a bit further than @Mini -- if you have these questions: do not go above 48V first. Know the technology before making it dangerous.
The problem with simulation is that no smoke comes from it when you make mistake, nor does it electrocute you.
The voltage you want to with, can and will as you would need to do a ton of diagnostics before you have it right.
Mini , 01-22-2024, 10:31 PM
Excatly. In this case it's not only about these IGBT, but how you use it. It's not a component you just solder on PCB. It needs special solution. I would choose more powerful IGBT problably and if RMS is 460V indeed it won't even fit with 600V max between collector-emitter. Anyway i don't think it is suitable for someone final year project if they have to ask questions like this. Since it is a final year project why not ask from your professor help? Big companies design stuff like this for years. It is no joke.
Hamid Hamza , 01-23-2024, 03:11 AM
Thanks you sir
Hamid Hamza , 01-23-2024, 03:11 AM
thank you @Mini
Hamid Hamza , 01-23-2024, 03:12 AM
@QDrives the 460V is the RMS value
QDrives , 01-23-2024, 04:41 PM
Than as @Mini stated, the 600V IGBT module is not good. It is not RMS, but the peak value that you need to take into consideration. And do not forget the tolerance (20%) and overvoltage.
Hamid Hamza , 01-23-2024, 05:10 PM
Thank you sir
Mini , 01-23-2024, 05:42 PM
Yes, peak value would be about 1.414*RMS and in this case it would be over 600V. And of course you need some room for tolerance/backup.
Hamid Hamza , 01-23-2024, 05:50 PM
@Mini Please what reference do you use to make the design?
Hamid Hamza , 01-23-2024, 05:50 PM
Why the tolerance of 20%?
Can i choose another percentage?
Mini , 01-23-2024, 07:52 PM
I haven't designed anything with this IGBT, i just happen to work at EMS where we produce products which use these. So i just have seen how professionals have done it.
Mini , 01-23-2024, 07:53 PM
You can choose any percentage you want, but you must make compromise at some point. Usually higher voltages(better spec) mean higher cost.
QDrives , 01-23-2024, 08:44 PM
Unlike @Mini remark that you can choose any percentage you want, the 20% is the tolerance of the mains power supply you have to consider.
So for the 460V RMS the mains would either be 400V (Europe) or 480V (US). If I take 480Vrms, you get 812Vpeak (480*sqrt(2)*1.2). With 400Vrms you get 677Vpeak.
Choose 900V or 1200V IGBT or SiC module.
Mini , 01-23-2024, 09:09 PM
I think we have +-10% tolerance on mains in EU. Or did you mean 20% = +-10%? In that case going lower doesn't matter.
Mini , 01-23-2024, 09:10 PM
Anyway it doesn't matter much since he obviously can't handle this project.
Mini , 01-23-2024, 09:30 PM
Also just out of curiosity how did you get 812V peak in US? Im not familiar with US power distribution, but i did quick google:
Mini , 01-23-2024, 09:30 PM
QDrives , 01-23-2024, 11:20 PM
Yes and no, there are places where it is common to have >250Vac in Europe (mostly known in the UK). However, you have to design to be tolerant to +-20%.
120% of 230V gets you 276V. You will have seen 275V on plenty of products and especially MOVs.

As for the 812V. In the link you sent from Teledyne:
"Three-phase voltages of 380/400 V, 440/480 V, 575/600 V, and a maximum of 690 V (600 V + 15%)"
You see the 380/400V of the EU and 440/480V in the US. I do not know about the other voltages.
480 * sqrt(2) * 1.2 = ~815V. (812 was with using 1.41 and not sqrt(2)).

Perhaps one of the correct sources for all these numbers would be IEC 60335, but I do not have access to that standard.
Mini , 01-24-2024, 08:25 PM
Ah i see you get that with 20% tolerance. Never mind.
Hamid Hamza , 02-06-2024, 02:44 PM
Hello everyone
I have to design a power board for a three-phase induction motor
The inverter DC link bus can be connected:
1- directly to the DC link of a three-phase diode rectifier
2- or to an external DC link (such as batteries or Photovoltaic pannel)
Please in my schematic how to illustrate these scenario?
Robert Feranec , 02-06-2024, 04:21 PM
Usually I would this do through variants - fitted / unfitted components for different situations. If something is connected externally, this can be done via a connector or pads where you solder wires (add these to schematic). PS: Please, for follow up questions the best is to create a new topic in this forum.
Hamid Hamza , 02-06-2024, 04:22 PM
@Robert Feranec ok professor
Robert Feranec , 02-06-2024, 04:22 PM
just noticed it there
Hamid Hamza , 02-06-2024, 04:22 PM
Please can i use a jumper ?
Robert Feranec , 02-06-2024, 04:23 PM
please continue in the topic, thank you
Hamid Hamza , 02-06-2024, 04:24 PM
ok Professor
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